Epstein accuser’s family blasts former Obama White House lawyer who said her assertions ‘lacked inherent credibility’

By Em Steck, MJ Lee, Annie Grayer, CNN

(CNN) — Kathy Ruemmler, the former Obama White House Counsel, told a House panel that she believed that descriptions of abuse by one of Jeffrey Epstein’s most prominent victims, Virginia Roberts Giuffre “lacked inherent credibility” – drawing a fierce rebuke from Giuffre’s family, who accused the lawyer of trying to downplay her own ties to Epstein.

The statement by Ruemmler to the House Oversight Committee became public Wednesday when the panel released a transcript of its closed-door interview with Ruemmler about her ties to Epstein. Ruemmler, who most recently was working in a top legal position for Goldman Sachs, said she now regretted interacting with the late sex offender and believed it to be a mistake.

But when asked specifically whether she believed Giuffre, a prominent Epstein accuser who died by suicide, was a victim of Epstein and Maxwell, Ruemmler answered, “I don’t know.”

She elaborated: “If she says that she was, I don’t have a reason to doubt that. However, there were allegations that she made that were, I believed based on my experience as a former prosecutor and as a defense counsel, that were of such a nature that they were ‑‑ they lacked inherent credibility.”

Responding to the statement, Sky and Amanda Roberts, Giuffre’s brother and sister-in-law, said in a statement to CNN: “The only person who lacks credibility is Kathy Ruemmler, who is trying to get people to believe she didn’t know Jeffrey Epstein was actively engaged in sex trafficking.”

“To attempt to cast doubt on Virginia, whose bravery was the reason so many other survivors stepped forward, resulting in more than 50 people from having to step down from their positions of power, is reprehensible,” the statement said. “She should be ashamed of herself.”

Jami Schlicher, a public relations representative for Ruemmler, disputed that Ruemmler was “broadly dismissing Virginia Giuffre’s allegations” in an email before Giuffre’s family members had issued their statement.

“That is simply not what happened,” Schlicher wrote in an email. “Ms. Ruemmler was responding to a specific discussion about specific allegations. She was expressing skepticism regarding particular claims that had not been substantiated, not every allegation Ms. Giuffre ever made.”

In 2019, Giuffre publicly alleged Epstein trafficked her and forced her to have sex with his friends, including Prince Andrew, now Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, when she was 17 years old. The former prince has repeatedly denied the allegations.

“Typically, when someone says, ‘I was sex trafficked to someone,’ they say who, when, where, not multiple world leaders, multiple foreign presidents,” said Ruemmler. She added that since she didn’t investigate the case, she would have asked the chief investigator about what evidence they uncovered or whether they interviewed Giuffre.

Ruemmler announced in February she would resign as the chief legal officer from Goldman Sachs after stories published detailing her ties to Epstein were published, including from CNN’s KFile. She was supposed to leave the firm by the end of June, but Goldman Sachs CEO David Solomon asked her to stay on as an adviser until her successor was named. Goldman Sachs declined to comment to CNN.

Giuffre’s brother and sister-in-law said in the statement: “Kathy Ruemmler enriched herself while girls and young women suffered and had their lives destroyed because she enabled their abuser.”

Ruemmler was also asked by investigators about an email from September 2015 in which she wrote, “I want to think about whether there are any counterclaims that could be brought against VR,” with VR referring to Virginia Roberts Giuffre.

At the time, Giuffre had sued Ghislaine Maxwell for defamation for saying that her abuse allegations against Maxwell and Epstein were “obvious lies.”

When pressed if she wanted to bring any counterclaims against Giuffre, Ruemmler said she had no memory of the email but that she was “sort of in a generic way trying to show that I’m being somewhat responsive when [Epstein’s ] asking my views. And, again, that was a common way that I would respond to him.”

“I didn’t have any direct involvement in any of this,” Ruemmler added.

Ruemmler explains emails with Epstein

Committee investigators broadly sought to press Ruemmler on her relationship with Epstein, presenting her with various emails – many of which were made public by the Justice Department – and asking her to explain.

In a February 2016 email chain, Epstein asked “we all set for a day of joy?” to which Ruemmler responded, “best massage ever, but not your kind of massage,” the transcript shows.

Given some of Epstein’s victims were initially recruited to provide massages, Ruemmler was asked to explain what she meant.

Ruemmler said Epstein had gifted her a visit to the spa at the Peninsula Hotel in New York City, and that her email was meant to be a joke about Epstein’s prior conviction.

“So what I was making here was an offhanded joke that, certainly sitting here in 2026, is in extraordinarily poor taste, but it was a joke about his prior criminal history,” Ruemmler said, according to the transcript.

Committee investigators also presented Ruemmler with a September 2014 email where Epstein wrote, “girls?, careful, I will renew an old habit.”

Ruemmler said that this exchange was likely in reference to an in-person meeting where she told him not to refer to women as girls.

Ruemmler was also presented with a June 2016 email exchange where she and Epstein were discussing a possible hedge fund job opportunity. After Epstein suggested that the hedge fund’s CEO “might just be interested in a woman,” Ruemmler responded, “Oh, Jesus—meaning you are going to trade one of your Russians for my comp?”

Ruemmler said that she knew some of Epstein’s staff were Russian and Eastern European, but she never saw anyone under the age of 18. She argued that she made the comment as a way to “deflect,” because in her view, Epstein was trying to insert himself into a potential job negotiation when she hadn’t been offered anything and wasn’t seeking his help.

“I regret emailing him. And this is a – this is a joke that certainly doesn’t land very well today,” Ruemmler told the committee.

In March 2015, Ruemmler wrote to Epstein “Darling, I am not one of your young things.” She told the committee she was being “snarky” after a long travel day to China.

“Remember, he had a – his girlfriend was probably 15 years younger than me and – at that time,” Ruemmler said, adding, “He also had staff, you know, several women in their, you know, late 20s, early 30s, who were on his staff who traveled with him. And so I’m basically saying, don’t – again, Don’t mansplain me. I’m cranky.”

Work at Goldman Sachs

With questions about her job status swirling publicly, Ruemmler would not commit to recommending that her successor at Goldman Sachs would not have ties to Epstein.

“I think that is not a question for me,” she said. “In the American legal system we hold people accountable for their conduct. We don’t hold people accountable for their associations.”

“It is, in my opinion, a very, very bad policy to start to impute misconduct by people solely as a virtue of their association,” she said, adding it would be a “very dangerous road to go down.”

Ruemmler said she had disclosed her association with Epstein to the bank before she joined in 2020.

“I said that I knew Epstein, that I had communicated with Epstein, that I had dealt with Epstein, that he was not my client, but that he was a primary adviser to my client, and that he had asked my – while he wasn’t my client, he would certainly ask my views on things from time to time,” she said.

Epstein and Ruemmler’s professional interactions

Ruemmler said she knew Epstein professionally as a lawyer because the two shared a mutual client – a bank – and that her interactions with Epstein were as a lawyer.

Ruemmler said she never represented Epstein as his attorney or was compensated by him, and she was one of many people Epstein asked across his professional and social circles for advice.

“He asked my views from time to time, as I think he asked others as well, and I tried to be responsive and give my views. But, again, he wasn’t my client. I didn’t work for him. He wasn’t paying me. Wasn’t my responsibility. It was somebody else’s responsibility,” Ruemmler said.

This developing story has been updated.

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